Yasmin - Pivot by Design, Ep. 27
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: [00:00:00] Welcome to Life Leaps Podcast, here inspiring stories of ordinary people who made extraordinary life changes. What drove them, what almost held them back, insights for the rest of us considering life leaps, big or small, because hearing someone else do it reminds us that we can too.
Happy Wednesday, everyone today. With Yasmin, who, while she was a mom of two on maternity leave, decided she wasn't going back to her day job. She was going back to school instead. Yasmin's journey takes us through the total identity crisis that can often happen with career change. And that way our conversation actually reminded me of an earlier episode with Jodie scissors. Uh, mom who went from teacher to podcaster entrepreneur, and much more, but first had to ask, like, who am I, if I'm not a teacher that's episode five, I'll drop it in the show notes.
But today we go with Yasmin from that identity crisis and the guilt that can come with [00:01:00] career change Yasmin went from law to industrial design. To reframing failure, learning to differentiate. Can I from, should I, and how motherhood surprisingly helped Yasmin feel more connected with herself and her goals? We also get to move countries and talk about how it felt to be a student and then a pregnant intern and your mid thirties.
So buckle up. But quickly. Alyssa recently reached out to share how similar to our guest in last week's episode, who's leap for, to fell through, but she continued with it anyways on it. This listener too, had started a big leap with a life partner, opening a business. And when that relationship fell through, she like Annette. Decided to keep going on her own.
Anyway, she made the business a boutique pet care, shop her own, and it's thriving. Thank you so much to Myra in St. Louis for sharing this and please keep the leap updates coming responses to past episodes, whatever. You can email me at life LEAP's [00:02:00] podcast at g-mail dot com. Or find me under the same name on Instagram. I still can't believe we've reached 77 countries and over a thousand cities, and I want this community to keep growing. So without further ado here is Yasmine.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: So. I always ask everyone, where did you grow up? Where are you from?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I'm from Ottawa, Canada. I was born and raised here and I stayed here actually until I was, like 26 or 27.
Okay. That's a long time. And I'm back in Ottawa now.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: That's not that long. Some people stay in the same place their whole lives and that's fine too. Totally. Okay. So tell me is, I don't even know a ton about Ottawa. embarrassingly unaware of their amazing Northern neighbor.
We just think it's very cold and there's maple syrup. And in some places there, they speak French. I obviously know a little bit more than that, but tell me [00:03:00] everything.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: okay. those are all true. I yeah, so Ottawa is the capital. but it is by far not the most exciting city. I will say I love it, but it's definitely, I think part of why I'm like, yeah, I stayed pretty late is because typically they move away to either Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver or Paris.
because it's not, it's not it's not a big kind of vibing city. It's great. And I love it. And I think that it's got so much going for it. Otherwise I wouldn't live here. but yeah, it's not a bustling metropolis. Let's put it that way.yeah, very family friendly. It's very beautiful. It's great for if you're outdoorsy, if you love to, hike or snowboard, ski or skate.
it's a really I feel like it's quite a sporty city. lots of good restaurants, but lots of hidden gems. Like you've got to know, you've got to know someone if you're visiting Ottawa, it's like helpful if you know someone who can give you recommendations. Cause I feel like a lot of things just fly under the radar.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: but it's a good place. And my new favorite question that I'm asking people. What is one way or one [00:04:00] thing your family or friends described you as when you were younger growing up?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I think like big imagination was definitely one and very nurturing. That is something
that's just always been, ever since I was really little girl, that's been what people have said about me.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: okay. So that little girl grows up 26, goes to school and decides at some point she is leaving Ottawa. Where do you end up? I think you went to undergrad and then you tell me.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: So basically I did undergrad like a liberal arts undergrad degree in Ottawa. And then I traveled for a bit. I worked this like, what kind of gap here? And I went to law school also in Ottawa.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: What made you go to law school? Was that your undying passion from the time you were five, or was this like, Oh God, I have to do something in between?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: You know what? it's funny.
I don't even, I so rarely think about this time in my life, but actually I almost forget this fact, [00:05:00] but originally when I applied to law school, I applied to a joint program that was law and English. You graduate with a law degree and also a master's in international affairs.
It was this joint program between two universities in Ottawa. And I was basically just there for the international affairs piece. I was really interested in international development work at the time. And at some point I was always like really anxious about my future and like career or whatever.
And I had obviously before applying to anything, I'd sought out different academics.
sought out different people. Doing things that I thought were interesting and ask them about their advice and how they got to where they were, whatever. And I remember speaking with one woman who she was, A faculty member at university and she told me, the biggest challenge for women who get into international affairs often, especially development work, is that you often get pigeonholed into like administrative roles.
So if you're really interested and passionate about this, like one piece of advice I have for [00:06:00] you is considering, doing a law degree as well so that you've got just like a broader toolkit. So it's her fault. I blame it all on her. No, I've obviously repressed that memory. Like I said, I like never even remember that I was originally in this joint program,
So I got into this joint program also in Ottawa. And the first year was pure law. And when I was doing law the first year, I just got,it's like a, I don't want to say it's like a cult, but it's intense law school is really intense. You basically, I was at school all the time. I more or less didn't see friends outside of peers.
So I was studying with, and it just becomes this bubble and this kind of echo chamber. everything's so competitive And I, worked really hard. I got good grades and. I think when you do well, there's this expectation like, Oh wow.
okay, so you're able to, just these certain doors open for you. And I [00:07:00] was like, Oh, okay, cool. Without really thinking. if I can't open, but is it exactly is it something I actually want what brought me here in the first place? I was just not very engaged in like self reflection at that point.
I was just on this train hurling forward in one direction and suddenly the international affairs piece, which is actually what I had been really interested in the first place. I just. I abandoned it. I decided to, to not pursue that. And I thought, okay, I'm just going to barrel forwards in, in law because that's, quote unquote going well.
And I didn't really check in with myself. how does this make me feel? I'm actually really interested in this. It just, I got really caught up. So that's how I ended up. In the legal field, which kind of an accident in a way,it was definitely never, I didn't grow up thinking, Oh, I'm going to be a lawyer.
And certainly growing up, no one ever said or thought, Oh, she would be a great lawyer one day. you hear people say that about their kids sometimes, Oh, they're so good at arguing or whatever. They're [00:08:00] so logical. That was never me. I was like the creative kind of dreamer. I don't know, like just, it was never something that people saw for me.
And. Maybe that was also part of it. I was like, wow, okay. it's a field in which there's a lot of, I think, social, like recognition and be like, oh, wow. Law, and I I don't know. I ate it up, so yeah. And it didn't get me, it didn't really get me
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: very
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: far.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: I think it's, I think it's, I think it's interesting that you flagged about it's something that I could do, if you can, Oh, I've got the grades.
I know that's like a thing that people aspire to do. And this person's told me maybe it opens doors for me. And so I can do it, but should I?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: a hundred percent. I never asked myself like.
what kind of life do I want to lead? what do I want my life to feel like in 10 years? What do I, how do I imagine spending my time? just certain questions that I now I can't wait, like when my kids grow up, I can't wait to engage with [00:09:00] them about that topic and just provide that kind of backdrop that I wish in retrospect I'd had.
I mean, yeah, just total lack of checking it with myself, for sure.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: And so you do go to law school, you finish law school, you show that you can.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: So,that's the thing,I had this real in third year, I remember having this total crisis. I just I reached this point where I was like, Oh my God, I actually think I want to quit law school.
I don't want to do any of this. I hate these classes.
And I then decided, okay, I am just, I can't imagine going to work in a law firm next year. And everyone around me was applying. and I was like, you know what? No, like I think I'm going to pursue academia. So I applied to grad school, and that is what brought me to, to London, England.
I moved there right after law school, and I did a one year master's of law. and like that year was just the best year of my life. [00:10:00] I
I met, met great people, got to live abroad for the first time,And I. Yeah. I met my husband actually. So,Okay.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Big things happen for you. Yeah. Okay. so you were already doing the weird thing, even within the should, even within the I am going to go to law school because I feel like I can, therefore I should.
And that's the thing people do. Yeah. You were already like toying with the less taken path by being like, all right, I'm not going to try and go work at a law firm right now, whatever. I am going to do this. tag on degree where I not only leave my town but I'm going to do this master in law thing.
In some way, it also buys you time because you're like, I don't quite have to figure out what I'm going to do yet. Like school does that for a lot of us. Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think I'm going to study. But now, okay. And this isn't even the main leap, but look, you change countries.
Just curious, like, how's that? You're, you've never left [00:11:00] your hometown in terms of living, right? Of course, maybe you travel, but yeah, no, I had,
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: no, yeah, I had traveled before. My dad's actually from France, so I grew up, traveling to Europe sometimes, but I'd never lived anywhere else, and I'd never lived just, really far away from everyone I knew, and that was, I would recommend that to literally anyone and everyone who was able to have that experience.
It was so formative and just so helpful for me. I think also just to get off that train of what's everyone else doing? I think it's really easy to get like swept along and things. And when you're In a different environment and you're really on your own for a bit.
it was really freeing for me to just get away from that because I think, y'all know this to Karen, like law school is just.
It is a special beast, right? Like it's so competitive and it's like hazing. I feel like, Oh my God, it really is. Like it really is. And it can be hard to see yourself outside of that. so it was really great. [00:12:00] And then, so I did the year and at the end of the year, I was like, yeah, I met my husband.
Yeah. we met on the first day of orientation. Actually, there was like this dinner. And drinks reception. And, and we met there and he's from Germany. and yeah, obviously did not meet him and think that whatever, like we were going to end up having kids and that I would live in Germany one day, but anyhow, it was, yeah, it was great.
I met him.
but I also it became really clear to me that I actually didn't want to be an academic. so I was having fun. And then at the same time, I was like, but what am I going to do when this is done? I still have to like, deal with the whole question of what to do with my life.
And I thought, okay, I'm going to stay in London. I'm going to try and work in a non legal field.
And I applied for a bunch of non law jobs and I.
got a position working at like this, it's called like a knowledge brokerage, like a glorified call center. But anyway, I was working there and [00:13:00] knowledge
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: brokerage. It
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: sounds so fancy. When I started working there, I was like, I work for a knowledge broker. And then very quickly I was like, Oh my God, I work for a call center, yeah, essentially.
Yeah. Anyway. yeah. And that was honestly, that was a really difficult period of time. Like London is a great city and I love London, but it's great if you can afford to be there. And when I was studying, I had my student loan, but when I was working, it was a different situation. Like I was just, the cost of living is so high and,my partner was working in a law firm and doing really well in this area that I had trained for, but not.
Completed and then I was just struggling, like I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I was working, but it wasn't I knew it wasn't long term.
And you end up actually in your first law job. Right.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yes, so I ended up I moved to Toronto. So back to Canada, [00:14:00] and I was long distance with my partner for a year and didconstitutional law and
I did really find that area interesting. I also knew. Still in my gut, that legal practice was not totally it for me. I think I already then was like, okay, this is like the one area of law that I actually you know, really like, and I'm still not sure that this is, The way I want to feel and I'm supposed to feel about,what I do every day.
I actually think
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: that's like kind of the crux is we're constantly asking ourselves.is this what I should be feeling about what I want to do? Should I even be thinking about is it a luxury to even be asking myself?
Oh my
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: God. A hundred percent. Like a hundred percent. And I, even at the time, I remember talking about it a bit with family and not my parents. Like they've always been just, yeah, so supportive and follow your dreams and but even just [00:15:00] extended family and some friends even who, I got the distinct impression that, it's, a strong belief of some people that it is a very kind of millennial luxury to be like, I don't feel aligned or, I don't like this enough.
I had some people be like, like, get over yourself, And this is a bit of a side note, but I do think now in hindsight and just having spoken to lots of different people about, how they feel about their career path and what they're doing, I think that there really are different types of people who I think some people are perfectly happy and fine and content to just do a job or have a kind of nine to five that they don't hate.
But, it's just, it's fine and they can make ends meet and then they've got their life outside and they they work to do that other stuff, right? They earn an income to afford them [00:16:00] a lifestyle where they can do those other things that they, that fill their cup. And then I think there are other people for whom that is just not That just doesn't work.
And I know it's maybe like idealistic but I do think that there are some people out there who are like, no, like I have to, if I do not feel some sense of purpose or passion or something, I cannot show up every day and do this. I will literally shrivel up.
Like I just will get depressed. and that, that was how I have felt. Always felt. And I feltashamed of it for a while. and especially I think when you're in a field that is, or in a, an area of work that's very intense and very demanding in terms of the hours that you work and just like the space in your life that it takes up, right?
It can be a lot. And, I think for me to be able to sustain that level of, dedication and kind of [00:17:00] to be what feels like sacrifice.
Like I would need to feel so fascinated and passionate and invested, like it would need to really mean something to me and it just never would like that. That's just not, it's. Not ever been that to me,
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: and I don't think by the way, like to your point about there are some people who can just spend, do their nine to five and they're cool with it.
It doesn't cause them that much pain. And so they're fine. I don't, I agree that there are some people that causes less pain and strife for them than others. And I envy them in some ways because you're like, wow, you're just okay. Aren't you? And that's great for you.
When am I going to be happy? Am I just like this constant, dissatisfied striver? which is like a larger conversation, But maybe one for therapy. I love, I
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: just love, I love that way of putting it like dissatisfied striver. that is, it's, that's, I, that's what I wondered to myself for many years.
that's just [00:18:00] so well put.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Yeah. And I, but I think that there is, there's this constant question of do I even have the right to be asking myself these questions? Am I just looking a gift horse in the mouth? Should I just be grateful for like the things that I have and the life that I have and that I have things that, that people say I should want or that I've even thought that I should want
And I think that the mental game in that is strong. Like we're, I don't want to gloss over that. I think it's real and I think you can acknowledge that it's a privilege to ask that question and you can still ask that question.
Like I don't want to use gratitude as almost like an excuse or a reason To not still be asking hard questions and having hard conversations.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I love that. I love that reframe. And I think that you really nailed it with. Your description of, yeah, that privilege piece and feeling oh, it's not, it's [00:19:00] ungrateful of me to not just be like glad with what I have. And I think the other word for me that comes up too, and I remember how I felt back then is, oh, I'm going to seem really entitled.
I seem really entitled that I have. Cause it obviously, especially, law school is expensive, right? I have had access to this education. yeah, I had huge student loans, but still I was able to like, get those loans, get that education. and it feels so entitled to then be like, actually no, right?
which is obviously not how I felt, but how I was very worried that it was going to be perceived. yeah.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: I think about that a lot.
but in the And if you're not entitled.
To your own life and to making that like the best version of it that you can be with the wiggle room or space that you have, who in the hell is going to be right? who else is doing that for you? No kidding. Yeah. Anyway, just to normalize there on a little side detour that we needed to go on you and I just now.
I love it. [00:20:00] I love it. It's like therapy.so as we know, you did. Decide to like, you, okay. You continue on with the law a little more. I want to hear about that, but we all know you did make some of those changes. So you're having all these questions already, but you don't walk away from law the next day.
Oh no, you don't. Instead, I did not.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah. So we both then moved to Frankfurt in Germany.
And I'd never been there before. Philip didn't know it well at all either.
but it was, it's, an international hub.
where I could find work without having to speak German or be German qualified. So I applied like crazy and got a job. Oh my gosh. I got a job in banking law. Oh boy.
And do you wish you'd taken that class now?
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: You're like, wait a minute. Googling
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Honestly, like [00:21:00] definitely the next installment of the, yeah, it's been makes a major life decision without checking in with herself in any way whatsoever.
anyway, I just was happy to get something because I needed a job So yeah. Living life. In Germany, working in this new job, that was, it was probably one of the hardest periods of my life, honestly.
Like I think I'd had this very rosy idea of how it was going to be, and it was nothing like that. I was experiencing huge culture shock. London had been, yeah, the culture is different, but it's not, the language is the same and it's nothing like the culture shock that I experienced when I moved to Germany.
I think I, I thought that it was going to be, I don't know what I thought it was going to be. I just didn't anticipate it. The language barrier was hard. I had my, my partner there, but he was working a lot as well. And I just wasn't used to like all the little things. like when you move abroad, especially the North America to Europe jump, like [00:22:00] small things like, City blocks, not being blocks, but everything like curving and being twisty, turny.
Like you, I got lost all the time. I, I just things that I was not used to experiencing anyway. Yeah, that was a lot. And then obviously, yeah, working banking law, which I mean, if you don't love law, banking is probably the worst one of the worst areas that you can practice in.
I don't know what I was thinking. so that period of time was really hard. And I think that was where I was really likehitting rock bottom in a way. I, even on a personal level, Which I hadn't, I didn't really mention this aspect, but when you're both lawyers and you're from different jurisdictions, it is very difficult to make it work because anytime you, you can't just like move to be with your partner, generally [00:23:00] speaking, without having to like re qualify or which involves, writing a bunch of exams and like getting called to a bar somewhere else.
it's quite a complicated exercise. And Yeah. It wasn't an option for us to stay in Canada because he had already re qualified in England and Wales and wasn't going to re qualify again. I was still just figuring myself out. He's a bit older than me. He was already established in his career.
so there had always been this kind of underlying question or in our relationship of like, where are we going to end up?and this feeling of tenuousness, like we want to be together, but Geographically, like, how can we make this work? And like London ultimately for me, didn't work.
I'd I loved London, but I at a point was I felt like it had chewed me up and spat me out. I was like, I can't handle this anymore. Like I just, it's too much. I want something else. And so Germany felt like it felt like the last. Option like we'd moving is a big deal and we'd [00:24:00] just been like, yeah, uprooting quite regularly.
And even within London, like we've moved multiple times and it was always, how long are we going to be here? Do we like, what kind of lease do we sign anyhow? So Frankfurt, we're okay, this has to work or we got to throw in the towel. So there was a lot of pressure on things working out.
And then when I was just realizing that it was. Just feeling like a total disaster. It didn't just feel like, Oh,professionally, this is difficult. It felt like the personal consequences were also going to be pretty devastating because,he'd moved there again. Cause like I'd gotten a job there.
So he moved there. He wasn't gonna quit and move somewhere else with me. So I was just thinking, what are we going to do? And I remember part of the requirements for me working at this firm in this position was that I had to qualify in England and Wales.
So I didn't need to be qualified at the German bar, but I had to do the exams for, the English bar. [00:25:00] And I, who had never failed anything in my entire life, and I'm admitting this publicly now, like on a podcast, I failed one of those exams. And I look back and I'm like, I was absolutely burnt out.
I was working, I had crazy weeks, like getting home regularly at three in the morning, four in the morning, six in the morning. I'm like. It was insane and trying to study on the weekends. my mind, my brain was just like in total, and plus like trying to learn German, like it had to, they wanted me to add this like certain German proficiency three months in, it was like a train just like barreling towards a wall.
It was bound, something had to give, So I went and I remember going to England and my husband like came with me and for a few days and it was five days worth of exams. And. I remember sitting in a cafe early morning with him before going to one of the exams. [00:26:00] And just breaking down, like bawling my eyes out.
I was like, I can't do this. I don't even want to do this. I don't want to qualify. I don't want this job. I don't even want any of this. I don't even know why I'm doing this. And then I went in to do the exam and I completely blanked. It was like, my mind was just like a blank chalkboard and I think I wrote one line and then walked out.
So I knew that I'd failed and then, oh sh*t, this isn't, yeah, I was like, yeah. It was really, it felt like a rock bottom in, in a way. and I came back to Germany, everyone at the firm was like, how was the exam? And I was like, Oh yeah, fine. and. Then I, yeah, then I applied to another job.
I was so desperate to get out of where I was, applied to another job and I got it.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Still within law.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: And still within law is at a different firm in an arbitration practice group. So more objectively, like for me, more [00:27:00] interesting. And and then I found out I was pregnant. And yeah, It was a tumultuous year.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: You're like, now the train has me and this baby. what is
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Oh my god, yeah. It was a crazy time. You know what, I found out I was pregnant, and I remember when I found out, just crying tears of joy. Like I was It was un, it was a surprise.I had always known that I wanted to be a mom always.
It had been, it was the one thing that I always knew I wanted one day. And I. Yeah, I'd always thought Oh, when's the time going to be right though? Like my career, like I don't know what I want still. but I also was feeling that pressure. I had just turned 30 and I thought then, Oh, I can't like the order of things really matters and I need to be established and whatever, but I can't be established because I don't know what I want to [00:28:00] do.
It felt like. But then I found out I was pregnant and it was the best surprise ever. And, Also nerve wracking because like different countries still and starting a new job and feeling guilty. Oh my God, I just found out I'm pregnant and I'm also, first semester, you don't want to say anything because what if, how far
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: into the new job are you when you find out?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Like very beginning. Okay. Yeah. I remember like leaning over on my desk one day and thinking I'm so tired. This is so weird. Like why am I so tired? Yeah. That was why.yeah. Anyhow. Yeah. it's interesting.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: No, it's interesting that you're saying that I cried tears of joy and I'm so glad you did.
But when you said I cried, I didn't know which way you were going to go with that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It seems like you were going to say it was a [00:29:00] surprise just from the way you said it. And at that moment, like your reaction really could have been anything because you're in this other country.
Yeah. And you're in this job and this career in this field that is not working out for you and you're working these crazy hours, which I mean, obviously I think we'll get there, but like you really, it's really hard to do when you're pregnant and or have a young kid and you've just said your relationship feels like it's also at risk with your then partner because he's moved for you.
And you don't like it anymore. And you're like, like maybe you want to cut the cord, but it feels like you're not only cutting the cord on the job, but maybe on law, but maybe on this relationship because maybe this person is just worried like, Oh my gosh, we're, this is going to be fed up. It's too much.
And so I could have seen you crying tears in either direction and I'm glad for your sake it was joy, Yeah.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: That's true. When you put it like that, I'm like, Oh yeah, no, I had really always wanted to be a mom.
And like [00:30:00] we had talked about having kids and it was then we both wanted and, full disclosure. So I had actually had a miscarriage once before, like a couple of years beforehand and had always just worried since then, Oh, I have a hard time because I just assumed actually that I would have a hard time conceiving and, I think also I was so like stressed with work and just like unhealthy in terms of how little I slept and like the level of stress that I was under.
That I also wasn't like I didn't have normal periods like it was just I didn't think that I could get pregnant anyway So then this I did and it was
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: okay. Yeah.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah, it was this Wonderful surprise and I was also terrified that something was gonna go wrong And just like to be clear, I think both Phillip and I were so committed to each other and our relationship and that was why we had been running up against closed doors willingly [00:31:00] for actually what felt like a couple of years.
and this, I don't know, this just, this gave a, deeper meaning to everything. I don't know. it's hard to put into words, but it was only good news.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Wow. Yeah. Okay. So you start this job, you find out you're pregnant and I think I understand even better now, why this was also such like an important and special surprise for you.
What do you do? what do you think? you, so you've got your emotional moment and, like your deep, emotional moment. And then do you look around and
Are you feeling okay, we're going to stay in Germany and we're just going to make it work?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah, I think I was,actually, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes and no. I think I was hopeful about the new job because I knew [00:32:00] very quickly off the bat that it was like a much better work environment than where I'd been previously.
So I wasn't like hating my life every day the way I had been when I first moved to Frankfurt.But I two months in is when I found out that I had failed the exam that the for the bar that the other job had required me to take and that failure. For me was a huge turning point. Like I remember I got the news on a Friday night.
I got an email on a Friday night saying that I had not passed the exam and I didn't even need that exam for the job that I was in the new job that I was in, but it's still, I really, I'd never failed anything before. And I got the news on a Friday night. We were driving, we were on holiday in the mountains for a week the next day.
And I remember. That night felt [00:33:00] like it felt like a dream. Like I literally, this sounds so probably so ridiculous. Like it's just, in retrospect, quote, unquote, just failed an exam, but it felt so huge to me. Like I felt sick to my stomach and it was a big exam. It was a five days worth of exams. It was like, these are a big deal
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: I get it. I think we're taught that like our success from the time we're kids, our success on these tests is so tied into our self worth.
A hundred
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: percent. I can
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: see why it should
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: do. Yeah. And I had a lot of peers who had done this exam as well and had passed. And so it just felt, it felt like there was this cognitive dissonance for me almost. Like I was like, this isn't who I am. Who's this person? I had, I felt so much shame and so much embarrassment and I didn't tell anyone at work.
I think it took me a few hours even to tell my partner. And I remember. the next day we were driving to the mountains and it was a very quiet drive because I was completely just like in my own thoughts. And I remember [00:34:00] Philip looking at me and saying, so when are you going to sit it again?
Are you going to do it in May before the baby comes or do you think you want to do it? like the winter sitting after the baby's born and something in that moment clicked for me. And I remember looking at him and just saying, I'm not doing it again. And he was like, Oh. Okay. are you sure?
Because it was as a North American in Europe, having some kind of European bar, it was just, it just made sense. And I was like, Nope. I, there is a reason that I failed this exam, and it's not meant for me. I don't want to do it again. I don't want to spend my pregnancy, which I've waited for, and that I'm so joyful about.
feeling stressed about this exam and studying evenings and weekends and all the time, and then traveling to London and just having it like no way it is not worth it to me. And I'm okay with just living with having failed that [00:35:00] exam and not doing it again. And I remember talking to my mom about it and she was like, what?
Like you have to do it again. Like it was just so not who I am as a person to not try again and do it again and get it. And I was just, it felt so crystal clear to me that it was just not going to happen. And I had no interest. and I think that was actually a pretty defining moment.
I wouldn't say that's when I was like, yeah, I'm not going to practice law anymore, but something shifted in me. when that happened.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Wow. I feel like I want to I was like exhaling after that moment. It's funny when we talk about Leaps, right? It's so easy to point to sometimes like the one big moment, like I left the end.
And sometimes that's how it happens. Maybe you wake up one day, but more often it's these like moments of clarity. we get that sort of add up and build on one another? And sometimes even in the moment you didn't consciously think and therefore I'm quitting law. It sounds like you [00:36:00] didn't.
Later, we're able to connect these dots of that moment of me flexing my muscle. of saying no or trying something different or saying, I'm not going to take this path. I'm not going to, whatever it is, it meant something and it was maybe like led you to something else.
It's led to something else. and again, I think we connect the dots in hindsight.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: that's a very good point. I think totally like at the time I would not have, I definitely wouldn't have said. And yeah, I actually, P. S. I'm going to quit law. no, but I was just I think it, for me, it was the values thing became really clear and definitely the pregnancy was a key part of that.
I was just like, absolutely not because it is not worth the sacrifice. My own kind of not only mental well being, but actually just the joy that I want to experience during this time. Not to mention yeah, I wasn't working until three in the morning every night anymore, but I still worked long hours.
I thought like, when am I supposed to do this? Like, when am I [00:37:00] could do it, but at great personal cost. And I don't want to spend my pregnancy or my postpartum doing this. no. And I just, it was the first time that I think I was dialed in and thought, what do I do? I want separate from what train am I on?
What direction am I moving in? But what do I want? And checked in and was like, actually no, this is just not for me. And I'm going to take this failure as a sign. And I was still embarrassed and ashamed, that I'd failed, but I also felt somehow in a slight way, almost a little bit emboldened by it.
Like I'm going to choose. To interpret this as something that is not compatible for me
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: and
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: that's okay.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Okay. Yeah. You make that declaration to yourself, your partner, the universe. And. You go back to work, you get out, you finish that car ride, you're not yet thinking you're [00:38:00] leaving the law, you go back to work, I'm assuming that following Monday, but like we all know you do leave, what happens?
So
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: long story short, I had my son, Several months later, I
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: remember you told me this, like, when we were briefly talking preparing for this phone call, you mentioned something that I feel like really, hit the point home to me is I think you were saying you really, you remember leaving Job at 9 30 p.
m. What was the? Getting yeah trash talking or what was the gosh?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: it was like Yeah, again, it was a much better work environment.
I had great colleagues, but it's still law turns out legal culture is legal culture. Exactly. That's the thing. And I remember being, yeah, like seven months pregnant. Leaving the office, I was on one big case and it was all hands on deck and I had Unless things were really like hitting the fan. I was trying to [00:39:00] leave by 10 PM because I was pretty pregnant and I was just tired.
And, I was like also worried about that. It was just like an anxious pregnant girl. You don't need to explain to me why you wanted to leave work at 10
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: PM. But like the fact that you feel like, is that's the culture? Like I hear you. Oh my God. It's still
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: ingrained. It's still ingrained in me.
You're like, just so you know. So I wasn't slacking. Yeah. So I was, I left at 9 30 when I could. Yeah. I remember walking out and very often when I would leave at nine 30, like I always had to walk by this one partner's office and very nice guy, but he would always say when I was leaving, Oh, Yasmin nine 30, nice.
What's, what are you going to go do this evening? And I remember thinking like, what? The heck do you think I'm going to do? Like I'm seven months pregnant. I'm going to go home. I'm going to eat dinner and I'm going to go to bed. Like he would phrase it in this way that in retrospect, I'm like, you are gaslighting me into feeling guilty for leave into thinking I [00:40:00] was leaving early.
And I don't even know if he knew he was doing it. Like I said, he was a nice guy, but I'm like, that's what that was. And.yeah, just like this question as if I was going to go, whatever, live out this entire evening. I always wanted to be like, it's not evening. It's f*cking nighttime. It's bedtime, buddy.
It's 930. You go home. Don't you? I don't know what you do after 930, but yeah, And, I will say, and I have to, give a lot of credit to that workplace because I, like I said, found out I was pregnant in the beginning when I was on probation and I told them during my probation, I found out like I'm pregnant,and they still gave me a permanent offer.
And which was like, actually I shouldn't be like, Oh, how good of them, whatever pregnancy should not impede you from getting, but it shouldn't feel good about this. It should be normal, but yeah, it's, yeah,
I had been worried that if they found out when they found out that it would cause them to, Just be like, okay, [00:41:00] actually, no, we don't need you.anyhow, so I was like, Oh my God, so amazing.
Like I get to go on my mat leave. I know that I've got this job, quote unquote, good job to come back to.and then I had my son and everything totally changed like completely. I, the mat leave policy in Germany is amazing. So you get, You actually get three years, not paid, but you got three years of time that you can take before, like within which they still need to guarantee your position.
Wow. So that's pretty phenomenal. and. Cannot relate from the US, but go on. Yeah,I know. Yeah, sorry about that. it's exceptionally, no, like it is exceptionally good. the Canadian version is also not that generous, but. Yeah, I ended up, so I had my son fell completely in love with being a mother and just felt, honestly, I think in retrospect, I think I felt truly deeply happy and just a sense [00:42:00] of freedom and ease that I had not felt in years.
And I was just content and I felt fulfilled and I think I felt a sense of freedom. Just a sense of self worth, like not, that was finally not dependent upon my job. And that can be really major. if you're used to deriving that, sense of self and worthiness and value to society from what you earn an income from, especially if that thing, is not something that you enjoy doing.
And so it was really important for me and I ended up getting pregnant. Soon again, afterwards, then I had my second baby when my first was 18 months old. So I rolled one mat leave into another and then COVID started. Anyhow, a lot of things were happening, but in a nutshell, [00:43:00] that time away. From the legal world was the best gift I ever could have gotten because I had the time to meet people outside of work.
So I finally was like making friends who were non lawyers and who, had, let's say like an air quotes, regular jobs with regular hours and gave me a sense of perspective that I had just been missing for a long time. And I think it made me feel validation as opposed to shame. around my feelings towards legal practice and that feeling that I'd had for so long that it was notaligned with what I wanted for myself and my life.
and it allowed me to own that with confidence. As opposed to feeling guilty for it or entitled or, some of those other emotions that we talked about. And yeah, it was really a [00:44:00] pivotal time. And I'm so grateful that the timing worked out the way it did. It's so funny. I think it's so easy to get hung up, especially as women on the order of things in our lives, Oh, I need to,Go to school and then work.
And then once I have X amount of security and income, then I'll have kids and then I'll like, and there are some obviously very practical reasons why we, why we think that way, but this order was totally not what I had anticipated for myself. And it ended up being exactly what I needed because that my boys in that time away was what kind of allowed me to really get in sync with my true Feelings about what I wanted and it just gave me a lot of clarity.
and it just threw my values into very sharp relief. And then, We decided to move back to Ottawa.okay. [00:45:00] Whoa,
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: stop the bus.
Which is maybe a bit of a jump. no, not at all. no, this is okay. Just quick for a second here. So the fact that you're saying, I think for a lot of, Moms having kids put sh*t into perspective like sometimes harsher than others But I don't know that for every mom. Maybe they would say that I don't know I feel like I think it's a really beautiful special thing I just want to pause and note it for a second that you describe motherhood like early motherhood as something that actually really re centered motherhood And recalibrated you and gave you this special like perspective and reconnection with self in a way and motherhood is a lot of things
but you always hear. And many times I experience, motherhood can make you feel disconnected from yourself because you're in this role as a mom, and those are valid, legitimate, [00:46:00] and very common feelings. And I want to not undermine that at all. Oh my gosh, I feel that.
Sometimes a lot, but I also want to flag, I think it's really special. And I actually can also relate to what you're saying about early motherhood also being a time of a lot of inspiration and clarity and feeling free from a lot of limits. And responsibilities that either I had placed on myself or I felt needed to be there or like in a way I felt more creative during the first year of my kid's life than I almost ever had, or at least more freedom to like.
Reconnect with those sides of myself that I felt have been dormant for so long.
And I think that there's this other current there of motherhood being this portal into like something that makes you because of that perspective, more true to yourself.
is that how it felt for you? Is that, am I rambling and resonating? [00:47:00] No. I have been quiet
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: because I'm just like taking in and hanging on to every word you're saying because it's a hundred percent. Yes. And thank you for putting it so eloquently, like a hundred percent. That is how it felt. And I think, I also think like so many things in motherhood, two completely opposite things can be true at the same time.
And that was it for me too. I definitely also had feelings of, maybe disconnect with parts of myself.At the same time, intense connection in other ways. So I think for me, gained clarity on. I guess the best way to put it would be like it shed light on values that I hold very deeply just around, balance in my life and I don't know, it's funny.
I think so many women would probably agree with this. Like you grow up thinking. That you're going to parent one [00:48:00] way or that you picture yourself as one type of mother. And I always thought I'll have my kids and then they'll go to daycare and I'm going to be this, that's how I said it when I was in a big career woman.
that was how I, I associated that with. Yeah, like power and like I a lot of the traditional tenets of, success, which I now think are any, that's a whole other conversation. But, and then I had my kids and I was like, Whoa, this is actually not how I thought I was going to feel like I definitely for a career that I.
I did not feel aligned with, I thought there is no way in hell that I am going to, or sorry, no way in heck that I am going to
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: put you guys, I don't know, not a children's podcast. You can, we may talk about kids ain't listening, so don't sweat it. Yeah.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Okay. Good. Good. Yeah. No, I just thought there's no way I am going to say goodbye to you for X amount of [00:49:00] hours every single day to go do this job that I don't even.
That literally doesn't matter to me. And I will obviously caveat that by saying that there are financial constraints and that it is obviously a privilege to be able to make that choice. I think it's a very different question, whether you're considering that in several European countries where the social supports are a lot more robust
and I was very. Privilege that my partner was also in law and earned an income where we could swing it for me to just be on because a part of that Matt leave a large part of that,double that leave was ultimately unpaid. And, we lived in an apartment and, And it was tight and it was intense at times.
And I'm making it sound, I'd also don't want to make it sound like it was just so rosy and wonderful. And I was in this like rosy bubble of joy with my kids. honestly, it was actually also hell sometimes like during [00:50:00] COVID, we were in that apartment. My husband was working in our bedroom, long hours.
I'm trying to like keep two little kids quiet in the apartment, feeling completely overwhelmed to have no family around,some new mom friends, but not it felt also really alone. so it was again, both things at once, right? Like your
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: point, like it can be both. It totally can be both, and it often is.
Yeah.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah. Clarity, and then at the same time, these feelings of oh my god, but what am I gonna do? I need to, okay. So I've I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I am not gonna go back to law. that had and I don't think I had one ah ha moment. I think it was.
Almost just this building kind of crescendo of like noise that I felt like I couldn't just, I was eventually forced. And I'm not, I hate making choices. Like even what takeout to order. I'm like, please just decide for me. I actually really don't like deciding a lot of the time. And.
And when it comes to choosing to close a door, I have a really hard time making that choice. [00:51:00] Even if it's a door that I'm like, actually, I don't really like what's behind there. I've seen it. It's not for me. I still don't want to go. I still want to leave it open a little crack, cause in retrospect, I knew after I had my first, I'm not going to go back.
I was like, no, I just wanna extend my mat leave. I'm having another one. don't give away my position because I wanted that choice, just in case. And especially because I didn't have something else lined up. did you say the second one planned
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: or was the second one a surprise?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah, planned. Okay. Second one was planned, but I didn't think it would happen so quickly. Again, I had this belief that I was like that I would have fertility struggles, like I thought, Oh, or I'll have a miscarriage or I had a lot of anxiety around, like, how long it would take to get pregnant and blah.
So that's why we thought, okay, we'll try and. Like I won't wait too long and then got pregnant and my second son came along pretty quickly. and then I remember a periodbefore we decided to move back to Ottawa, I was trying to, I was thinking of like business ideas and [00:52:00] like I had been planning actually for a while to start a business, doing like native English.
Editing of legal documents, because that was something I was always asked to do at the law firm. And I thought there's like a market for this. And I had, I was building a website and, in the wee hours, after my kids went to bed,trying to hustle on the side. And then in parallel, I also was doing.
Just a lot of soul searching and actually just research around alternate career paths and different qualifications I would need for them and just trying to, exercise like process of elimination, like what is actually workable with where I'm at in life.
And, Talking to people who had careers that seemed interesting to me. so lots is happening in parallel. I was trying to be very resourceful. I thought, okay, I'm not going to be in law anymore.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: And one of my very close friends. Who's a designer. She would always tell me these projects. She was working on like for years and I was always like, I wish I'd chosen that.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I wish I'd studied that instead.
Ding, ding, [00:53:00] ding, this is where industrial design comes in. Okay.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: And we would have these long whatsapp calls and I would be like asking her all these questions. And she's, she always said, Jasmine, why don't we just Go back to school. You always actually only want to talk about my work. You don't even want to talk to me.
you just want to ask me questions about my work. Yeah, go study it. I was like, no, I can't. I'm a mom. Blah. Anyhow. And then I actually did look into it. And, yeah. There was a good program in Ottawa, a school of industrial design here. And I applied past the deadline and sent in a portfolio with zero design work.
Cause I'd never designed anything in my life and, but I got in and so we moved and less than a month later, I started school again, which is very crazy. Okay. Yeah.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Jasmine. Okay. Wait a minute. So you're just [00:54:00] repeating two kids, ages three and under it's still, is it like still COVID time? Is this still?
It's
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: yeah.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: we moved in August
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: of 2021.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: okay. you've got these little kids, and, you're still on that leave. You're thinking if we stay in Germany, I'm going to try and do this side hustle business. I'm going to build a website in the three hours of the morning because maybe just maybe, but then you're like, your friend is telling you, you should always have applied for this design option.
And you're like, screw it. Let me just put in an application. Is it that you knew you were going to move to Canada? And so you were like, if I get there, I'll go to school.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: No, it was very up in the air.
my Matt Lee. Time was like running out basically. So I was going to have to face that question of I'm either going to have to resign.
and then when I do that, I need to find, or I want to find something else to do.
and. If we move to Ottawa. then I will be able school because going back to school would not have [00:55:00] been for me did not feel like something that would be feasible if I didn't have, family support because my mom, my mom is the one who watched my little boys when I was going to class and, not available for them.
She is the one who watched them and, Yeah, it was always clear to me that like that will only be possible if we move home So we decided to just take the leap and move here.
Here, of course, is where you are now, which is in Ottawa, several years later. And okay, so two months notice, you find out you're getting to school, you guys are going, you're doing it.you make this move. Were you in Germany four years, I think you'd said at one point?
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you move your small family, small, whatever, four of you, including top, you know, which is no small feat. I can tell you having just moved one of them across the ocean, you moved to, that's a thing. so you go back, you start school and you just started answering one of my questions.
the question is [00:56:00] always number one, how do you make it work? Logistically? It sounds like a big piece of that for you was childcare. Your mom was able to watch. The kids for you to go to school piece number two, money, dollars and cents, and again, you started to address this, but so you guys are living off of one salary.
Is your husband able to bring his like job to Canada? Cause you initially said that was the limiting factor. He was done. He wasn't going.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: Yeah. And no, he was not. He had been in talks with different firms. I guess I glossed over the planning phase, but like when I say we were considering two options, that period of consideration was long.
It was like during COVID I remember he would have chats with different firms over zoom. And, because it was also with two little kids, we're also aware Oh, it'd be really nice to have some support. And like my mom works with little kids, like she's I really wanted to be near my mom.Anyhow, we just, yeah, he did not have anything signed and [00:57:00] guaranteed.
Actually, when we moved here, the only thing we had going for us financially was that we had lived in an apartment in Frankfurt and saved euros. And those euros, when you did the conversion, especially at that time, translated into quite a comfortable, like the currency conversion did us a big favor. So we had some savings and, We stayed in my, actually in my uncle's home at first when we moved.
And then we bought a house a couple months later and. Shortly after we arrived, my husband's job was confirmed and it was signed and, which was a great, and the other piece to with going to school. And I think this is also very,jurisdiction dependent, but. In Canada, when you do a master's, it's more or less paid, so I didn't have to pay tuition.
I actually [00:58:00] earned money doing, I'm not, I didn't do it when I was pregnant, but when I was in my first, it's a two, it's a two year master's program. And in the, when I was doing my coursework, I worked both as a research assistant. And as a teacher's assistant, so I earned a small income, but still something, doing that.
So that was also helpful. and then, yeah, having my mom's support with the kids and we. my husband started working and again, like he is, he earns a good income and if it, if our circ*mstances had been different, if he had not been able to find work or if I had to pay, I don't know, just even several thousand dollars for the tuition, like that, that would have not been possible.
I would have had to consider something else, for sure. So definitely so grateful for the privilege that I have. To be able to access that and make that choice. I feel really lucky for that. And had I not. [00:59:00] Yeah. Sorry.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: no. I was going to say, but these options were available to you and like you, and there's probably some ego involved in that too.
what did it feel like being like, and by ego, like even if you can financially make something work, which I think not all of us. But for many of us who are working in the professional world and like we're in our 30s and maybe we've been working and saving or we're getting on that path for a little bit, like there's probably a way for more of us that are willing to admit that are listening to this podcast, there's probably a way we can create a little financial space in our lives to give ourselves flexibility.
I don't want to pretend money's not a limiting factor. It is like often. The biggest one, but a very strong contender in terms of limiting factors for making life changes is our own ego. And I've got to imagine that yours maybe took a little bit of a hit being like, I'm not doing this law thing. I dropped out [01:00:00] with a couple of kids and now I'm going to go back to school.
I know at one point, and I've been wanting to talk about this, we'll get there, but you become an intern. What's going on in the inside now? Are you, is everything feeling really rosy or is there a little bit of or are you all zen at this point? You know what?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I think to be honest, so much of the nerves and I guess just embarrassment that I felt was around leaving law.
And then once it was out in the open and like I had made that choice and it was clear that was the choice I'd made. And especially that I was going into this other area that I was very clear on that I liked and I think I just felt so fortunate. To get like almost like another kick at the can.
that's how it felt like, wow, I actually get to go back, do the thing that I've been saying for years. If I could go back, here's what I do instead. And I talked earlier about being in third year [01:01:00] law school, thinking I've done, I've made the wrong choice. I'm going to, I want to drop out.
And at that time I was looking at what it would entail to do. To pursue design at that time. And then I thought, Oh no, but it's going to take too long. It's two years. Oh my God. if only I'd known. But, yeah, I think more of the emotional kind of messiness for me was parting with law.
And once I'd made that move, everything else felt easier. I will say, I did get quite nervous around, telling certain people in my life, like certain extended family, my choice to go back to school. And I was sometimes a little cagey I remember at first I was kind of like, yeah, and I'm just, Taking a course, like I was a little vague,and then time passed and I just really embraced it.
it was so clear from the very beginning that it was such a great fit and I almost felt like I'd made a bet on myself and it had paid off. And I remember sitting there on the very first day [01:02:00] and the professor like pulled in a book this perm called Miro up, it's like basically like a virtual whiteboard and it was clicking around and adding things and being, and he's jump onto the Miro board.
I sent you all the link and everyone's like opening the Miro board on their iPad. And I'm sitting there with my notebook being like, uh, like, and I'd brought a laptop. I opened my laptop. I'm like, what is Miro? How the frig do I use it? Like I felt like, okay, this is it. Like I, you know, if you passed out of the bag, like I don't belong here.
And. I don't know. It just so quickly. I think I was so buoyed by the affirmation I got from trying things and figuring them out and then not only figuring them out, but actually doing super well. It was like I surprised myself like it had all been this big gamble. And I had I felt like I'd bet on myself in a way and it was actually paying off.
And [01:03:00] that was the most empowering thing I'd felt in a really long time. And it just made it all feel worth it.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Wow. Forget it that you're walking into that classroom and you're 10 years there, all those laptop carrying kids elder with your trapper keeper and your highlighters.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I brought my laptop, but I was just, I, and I still am. I'm such an analog person. Like I, anyhow, yeah, it all worked out. It all worked out. I love
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: it. I love it. Okay. And how you're like a year into school or you're in like a break with school. Oh wait, because other things happened. So yeah,
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: other things
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: happened.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I
So I have done all the coursework and I'm doing my thesis currently. But I am on a bit of a break because I had some. It's my third baby a year ago now, which feels so crazy. but yeah, so I got, I actually got pregnant like after, [01:04:00] after the first year of my master's, I got pregnant that summer and, and I also started interning in the fall, so I went back to school and then.
Got pregnant and then the following September started an internship as a pregnant 34 year old and that was a whole other experience
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Yeah, I am loving this. I Just love that you like any one of the any of the things that you've done period in life, but with these young kids moving from moving countries from Germany to Canada,
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: like
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: deciding to leave a certain career period, deciding to go back to school.
And then even when you do get pregnant and have two small children and you're pregnant with another one being like, now I'm going to do my internship. And then my thesis. what? I just think these are all really [01:05:00] bold life choices that you just keep on making
you mentioned to me the other day that you were also thinking about starting a podcast, which I think you a hundred percent need to do. about women career, changes and you have got your own account you've created. I
I'm going to put the handle for that, by the way, in the show notes for this episode, you're embracing the pivot and you're embracing doing it while having very small kids. And I just want to flag also, so huge luxury that your husband earns an amount of money that you're all able to live off of that.
How great. But also sounds like he's not just like an inherited millionaire. He's working long, really long hours. So not such a luxury. You're also the primary caretaker. And I don't know how the hell you're managing all this, but if you could just say a few words for the rest of us out here who are confused and struggling.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: So I will say so I have a lot of help. My mom, so okay, my, I have a five year old who is now in kindergarten. So Monday to Friday. [01:06:00] 930 to 330. He goes to school.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Got
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: it. My, now four year old, he just turned four. He goes to, like a little preschool, which is actually run by my mom, which is I think of all the things that I'm lucky for.
That is the main one. having my mom
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: watch
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: make it like for me, that's everything. And I, yeah, that's the thing that I'm like the most grateful for. so he is. Doing that, and I usually pick them up around, two. And then my baby, my daughter is home with me.
I've just started, I'm trying, I'm, I have to rip the bandaid off, but I'm like, I'm so attached. Cause I'm like, Oh, it's just my last baby. Like for, but I do, I need to, and want to progress my thesis. So I am committing to myself, but I'm going to start trying to drop her off two mornings a week at my mom's office also so that I can.
Just move the needle on my research on my own work, which I'm also excited about. but that [01:07:00] is how it happens. So basically I have the mornings right now. Currently I have the mornings when she naps. And I was trying to do something actually, but I I feel like since I've just relinquished that time of day and have given into okay, no, actually like I am, this is the time of day where I'm just going to be present for my kids.
And I'm going to pick my little guy up at two. And we're going to have fun together until it's yeah. Until it's time to go get. My older one. And then it's like the three of us and we have fun until about, five o'clock when sh*t hits the fan. Because there's something about the hours of five to 7 p.
m. in my house that are just total chaos every day. Oh my God, man. but yeah, I think I'm also in a phase right now where I'm Also just accepting that, I am leaning into.just time with my kids and prioritizing that aspect of my life and that's what's in the foreground right now And [01:08:00] that's okay, and there's still a lot of unpacking with worth and value To society when you're not earning an income and that is Something that is yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking about that.
but yeah, it is busy for sure, but without my mom, like it just wouldn't happen.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Okay.
Jasmine, are there any Books or podcasts or, like mantras or public figures, whatever, like resources in your life that have, helped you Making life changes What has helped you stay on track or get off track?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I think when I was really in the thick of it in Germany, I felt like there was not a lot out there. I felt like I was desperate for resources. I was desperate for stories, which is why I love your podcast so much because I think that when you are in a place in your life where you're looking to make a [01:09:00] move, or you're considering, a big leap or a pivot of some sort, it is really helpful if you Can get information and inspiration from others stories of going through, walking a similar path.
And I felt like there was nothing out there at the time when I was stuck in that phase. I do remember reading one book called, I think it was called Emotional Agility and there was this one part of the book that talked about, a man who basically was living this kind of quote unquote successful life earning a high income.
He was very successful by any kind of external standard, but internally he felt very disconnected from himself and,depressed. And anyway, she describes how her advice to this man was like about just the Basically changing his life and putting his values at the forefront. And that meant a lot to me because I saw myself in that story and [01:10:00] that felt profound to me.
So that was helpful. And then I also, at the time I remember listening to, second life pod and, I don't think it's recorded anymore, but for a while there was a podcast called more than just one thing is by Athena Calderon. Anyway, they were both interviewing people who had had one career and then went in to do something completely different, but it was mostly,either famous people or people who, were the head of a makeup company, like not what felt to me like real life examples.
which is again, why I think your podcast is really cool. And also which is what motivated me to ultimately start my own little page and. Why I have that goal also of having podcasts, because I feel like there are just so many conversations to be had about, yeah, just like the nonlinear, like we have these notions and you asked when we were chatting and prep for this call, you asked a little bit about, like limiting beliefs and oh my [01:11:00] gosh, like the list is endless.
Like when I think like limiting beliefs, I'm like, I think at the crux of it, just this notion that there's one path that you you get on it and then there's, it's one trajectory in an upwards motion and that's it. Because for me, for a long time, my limiting belief was it's too late.
I'm stuck. I can't, I have kids or I've gone to school X many years, or I've invested X amount of money in my education in this, like so many limiting beliefs. And when I just got out of my own way, even with going back and being a pregnant intern, I think by that point I'd already just realized like there's no one in the way but me.
Like the worst thing that's going to happen is someone will be like, Oh my God, wow, you're in your thirties and you're pregnant and you're interning. did anybody say that? Because I was hoping you'd say more on that.
So it was virtual, but I will say it was remote.
It was remote. everyone works remote with this company, but still there were like daily meetings. Like we would, I knew [01:12:00] everyone I worked with. We did meet in person a couple of times and no, no one freaking batted an eyelash. not to my face, maybe behind my back. I don't think anyone at this organization did.
Maybe peers did. I will never know personally, all I ever heard when I, And I really I think I shifted my approach along the way to, once I went back to school, I remember thinking like, I have to just own this. There is no point in approaching this from a place of kind of being apologetic or like feeling like I have to explain, like I coached myself into being like, this is a cool story.
Own it. Like just own who you are and where you're at. And if someone has a problem with it, then they have a problem with it. And that's their issue. It's not mine. And, that was very much the mentality I had with the internship too. I think I was just like, Yep. I'm doing this. And actually a lot of the time I got, wow, that's really cool.
Good for you. And again, maybe people behind my back are like, oh my God, what a loser. But [01:13:00] I really don't think so. You
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: don't know. And if they were, honestly, I don't care.
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I did it anyway. And truly like the, I got so much out of it.
so much out of it. yeah, it was an invaluable experience. Absolutely invaluable. Yeah.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: Yasmin, what's one thing that you wish you had known 10 years ago, before you, the Yasmin who was sitting down with that, I don't care if it was a friend or a teacher, a career coach, whatever, who was like, I see that you're also studying this international relations or international sort of like component of your interest.
But law could really open doors for you, even at that point, or maybe at other points when you're about to take leaps and, maybe you made your life harder than you needed to, what's one thing you would tell your prior self or you wish you'd known?
Yasmin, Pivot by Design: I think,[01:14:00]
I'm so bad at narrowing things down. I think if I had to choose just one thing. You're like top 10, that's fine too. Yeah, really? No, I think if I could just choose one thing I wish. That I had known a long time ago that it is okay to change your mind and that we are not necessarily. meant to or expected to feel the same way, to choose the same thing, to to know ourselves, when we make certain really important decisions for us for life and that it's okay to check in and change your mind.
And it's never too late. And I think for those, for me, those go hand in hand, like it is not too late to change your mind. And, I'm so glad that I realized that at some point, I wish I'd maybe realized it a little bit sooner. But, yeah, I think that's the most powerful or would have been the most powerful thing for me to know earlier on.
Karen with Life Leaps Podcast: [01:15:00] Thank you all for being here. We're a brand new podcast, so if you enjoyed it, go ahead and follow, rate, and review us in your podcast app so that we can know what you liked and others can find us. It would mean a lot. Last, but not least, we'll keep you posted on brand new episodes each week when you follow us on Facebook or Instagram at, you guessed it, Life Leaps Podcast.
Till next time.
